Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent an evening with a prominent neurosurgeon on Tuesday night discussing all kinds of things relevant to whatever is the topic of the day-one one of the things he said to me was," I have watched surgeries done by all kinds of specialists for 20 years, It frankly scares the shit out of me if I ever need to have my life saved by the hands of someone else. The stuff they leave behind, the inadequecy, the margin of human error is enormous. It is a wonder why more cancer patients don’t die earlier" I have fought battles against my fraternity throughout my career, most often only to alienate myself from others. I am by no means perfect or the best thing to ever have happened-but our system is flawed and its participants equally flawed. We have been trained to believe that medicine is our savior-we need to believe this or the sense of our own mortality is questionable at their hands. That t.v. commercial for Syms in this area where they claim,’ An educated consumer is our best customer" is the mantra we all need to heed. I have known a handful of really fine physicians in all practices of medicine-statistically considering all I have met an known, that is pretty scary. One of my first jobs was as a director of patient services for both inpatient and ambulatory psych pateints at a major hospital. My job was to oversee their diagnosis and treatment by the professional staff-it was a comedy of errors with disgraceful outcomes for too many patients-my battle began there. In retrospect, what goes on today makes then look like good medicine. Very few truly understand what an anxiety disorder feels like, or what the medications doled out feel like. Very few see why and how therapy doesn’t offer more then some fleeting moments of clarity and what to do about it. The lack of devotion, the lack of proper training, the lack of empathy and platitudes of excuses we accept in their defense has made me a very grumpy and impatient person-just like all of the posts I have read from people who want to know why they just feel lousy and fall into the hands of abusive incompetency, I wonder the same. I feel for anyone who needs to find help for themself in the morass of our health care system, or any other health care system worldwide for that matter. It can be very disheartening and frustrating.
Hi Margrove, Your perspective makes a lot of sense to me. I guess what bugs me most is the lack of openness that I often encounter with doctors and therapists. A few examples include: * Withholding diagnosis. Of the many doctors during my first years of panic disorder, one admitted in writing withholding the diagnosis and most had no comment. Panic disorder had been listed in the DSM for more than a decade before my symptoms began. * Recommending meds or therapies which had already proven ineffective or harmful in my case. This indicated a lack of understanding of either the treatment or my own case history. * Withholding treatment options. I was once denied access to a CBT program because I wouldn’t agree to a questionable change in meds. Also, many known options were never brought up until after I explicitly asked about them. The overall theme seems to be that diagnosis and treatment is often grossly influenced by unproven pet theories, blind application of protocol, desire to conduct clinical trials or simply protecting careers. I get particularly offended by such practices because I have tried very hard to work ‘with’ my doctors and therapists. Even in cases where I could have sued for malpractice, I chose not to because I felt it would hurt chances for forming cooperative relationships with other clinicians. Unfortunately, they rarely return the favor. I can accept that there is much uncertainty about our conditions and how to treat them, I just wish more clinicians were open about this and didn’t exercise so much conscious omission. One of the reasons I respect you so much is that you are open and honest about these things. Best Wishes, Arthur — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Hi Gary; I think I might have a copy of pourpose drive life around here somewhere, I just got a new book shelf for downstairs a couple days ago, (donated from someone down the street) so I will be moving many books downstairs. I am prettty lost still with what I want to do. I have been in the day treatment program for like 4-5 weeks now, and I sitll can figure out what to do with my career. However I did meet amy in the program, so that makes it all worth while!!… I did several of thoes skills assesment tests online, and it comes up with things like pschycolgist, nursing, writer, etc. Things that normally need a lot of schooling. Amy is almost done with 4 years of collage for writing, then she is doing like 2 years of undergrad, and 2 years of grad… Yikes, lots of school,,, almost like being a doctor,, 8 years,,, still a few years short… I wish I had a clue as to what to do…. How the heck do I figure it out??? I though about going back to doing marketing work, and working for myself,, but I am not positive that I want to do that. Jamie — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Hello; Thank you for taking the time to explain the whole schooling process to me. Recently I have been in a outpaient day treatment program (Daily for almost 4 weeks), that I went to primary for anxeity. The people there have a varity of issues, ranging from depression to disorders with psychosis. I observed how many of them were being very poorly treated for even basic problems like depresion. They were on medications that they knew were not working, and they were activly sucidial. Many of them had expressed there concerns to there doctors, and there doctors left them on the same medicine anyway. They often were never even tried on multiple ssri’s much less ssnri’s, tca, maoi’s, etc. Some of them are on such high doses of things, they can barely function, while this can be necessary in some cases, some of these people can barely live anymore because of the side effects of the medication, and there doctors are not even willing to attempt to make changes to there meds. and the problems go on…. I also see some paients that have pretty serious issues that are still seeing only a primary care doctor, and some are trying to find a pdoc but can not or the wait is months long to see a pdoc. There are people on 5,6,7,8 meds or more that are still so depressed they try to kill themselves all the time, and instead of ever making any changes in the meds, the doctos keep adding more meds to the mix. YIKES!!! This in the reason that my intrest in medicine has been brough forward even more than it has in the past. I see the very real need for more help for paients, and I can understand there suffering, atleast to an extent, even though I of course have not experiences all of the problems that everyone I have seen and talked to has. I know that I could help these people if I learned some more about treatment and the medications. I just wish there was some way around all of the schooling or there was some other useful way I could help people. I hate to admit it, but I think you are right that the schooling may very well be way too overwhelming for me to handle. I may just lack the aptitude to handle more schooling espically the type of schooling that you are descrbing. All that being said… I don’t know if there are any other options that you can think of that would allow me to be in a area where I could use my intelligence, and make a meaningful difference in paients lives… I am being strongly encourged by my doctors, and the group thearpy to start to find a career, and make some goals. (My nuero-pschyc recomends that I become a professor so that I can debate in a collage setting, and have a place where I can learn all the time, and be a little off beat, and no one will mind….) I am finding that I either have to be self employed, go back to school or work a very low wage job. In this area from what I can see, most untrained people are making a whoping $6-$8 per hour. Not nearly enough for me to live on, and I think in many of these enviroments, I would get anxious and frustrated, and it would be quite difficult. Thanks again, Any other though on a career are welcome. Jamie — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Jamie: I have no idea what other people think on this matter, or if my own observations/thoughts coincide with those most prevalent, but I have some very priceless and fond recollections of some of the times in life when I only DID make 3 dollars an hour. That isn’t to say that poverty buys happiness; obviously it doesn’t. I’m only suggesting that – well actually I’m just plain telling you: You will get anxious and frustrated on occasion, no matter where you work, and no matter how much, or how little they pay you. Knowing that, pick a job based on what brings you joy, if you possibly can. Neither poverty NOR wealth will buy happiness (although some feel wealth will at least put a down-payment on it). Active pursuance of a career might very well bring an end, or at least a diminution of some of the symptoms that you take medicines for, rendering them less able to interfere with your cognition. And, if they are helping your cognition, it’s not an issue at all. I noticed that you thought that you’d be anxious in certain jobs, how do you interpret that thought, in terms of your psych treatment at present? Gary ps: I’m hearing that "The purpose-driven life", which I think is on the bestseller rack right now, is not a bad book to take a look at. Just a thought.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello; Thank you for taking the time to explain the whole schooling process to me. Recently I have been in a outpaient day treatment program (Daily for almost 4 weeks), that I went to primary for anxeity. The people there have a varity of issues, ranging from depression to disorders with psychosis. I observed how many of them were being very poorly treated for even basic problems like depresion. They were on medications that they knew were not working, and they were activly sucidial. Many of them had expressed there concerns to there doctors, and there doctors left them on the same medicine anyway. They often were never even tried on multiple ssri’s much less ssnri’s, tca, maoi’s, etc. Some of them are on such high doses of things, they can barely function, while this can be necessary in some cases, some of these people can barely live anymore because of the side effects of the medication, and there doctors are not even willing to attempt to make changes to there meds. and the problems go on…. I also see some paients that have pretty serious issues that are still seeing only a primary care doctor, and some are trying to find a pdoc but can not or the wait is months long to see a pdoc. There are people on 5,6,7,8 meds or more that are still so depressed they try to kill themselves all the time, and instead of ever making any changes in the meds, the doctos keep adding more meds to the mix. YIKES!!! This in the reason that my intrest in medicine has been brough forward even more than it has in the past. I see the very real need for more help for paients, and I can understand there suffering, atleast to an extent, even though I of course have not experiences all of the problems that everyone I have seen and talked to has. I know that I could help these people if I learned some more about treatment and the medications. I just wish there was some way around all of the schooling or there was some other useful way I could help people. I hate to admit it, but I think you are right that the schooling may very well be way too overwhelming for me to handle. I may just lack the aptitude to handle more schooling espically the type of schooling that you are descrbing. All that being said… I don’t know if there are any other options that you can think of that would allow me to be in a area where I could use my intelligence, and make a meaningful difference in paients lives… I am being strongly encourged by my doctors, and the group thearpy to start to find a career, and make some goals. (My nuero-pschyc recomends that I become a professor so that I can debate in a collage setting, and have a place where I can learn all the time, and be a little off beat, and no one will mind….) I am finding that I either have to be self employed, go back to school or work a very low wage job. In this area from what I can see, most untrained people are making a whoping $6-$8 per hour. Not nearly enough for me to live on, and I think in many of these enviroments, I would get anxious and frustrated, and it would be quite difficult. Thanks again, Any other though on a career are welcome. Jamie — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
"I have known a handful of really fine physicians in all practices of medicine-statistically considering all I have met an known, that is pretty scary." Similar experience here, and I concur. "It can be very disheartening and frustrating" That is absolutely indisputable. What I have found is that you MUST have an ally. With an ally you will sail "reasonably" smoothly (not entirely, mind you – but reasonably) through some rocky roads they have in store for you as a patient. Without an ally, you are at the mercy of strangers, many of whom are as personality-disordered/ enraged /sociopathic as any equivalent pathology (be it cardiac, neuro, whatever) that they treat. Anybody who fails to take advantage of the opportunity to make friends with a nurse or doctor (who has half a brain) is stupid, because one day they will really need that person for an ally. I could go on and on with anecdote, but the point is made. I am agressively patient-advocacy oriented (which wins me no prizes in any hospital, let me assure you) and have been the ally more than once in a non-employee capacity, and I was amazed at the indifference that I encountered, and those delivering it to me knew perfectly well that I could rock their world – I’d hate to be a patient with no ally. In fact, I just wouldn’t do it. (indifference was delivered, but followed by correct action, so was ultimately rather impotent and silly/petty – an attempt to say "who do you think you are" without saying it – knowing I’d tell them exactly what they were if they had) If you’re going to be indifferent, at LEAST follow through on it! Sorry, little angry diatribe, had to talk to that gov’t agency today – you know the one…. PVC’s, all day, all the night before, new onset (right after lasix started), no labs ordered. I ask about it, politely, and you’re gunna be INDIFFERENT to me? Naaah. I don’t think so. Gary (tangential, possibly going off in a bad direction… LOL)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (above snipped) Bottom line is it is grueling, time consuming and requires some real grit and tenacity as well as physical stamina. Wonderful summary Margrove. Overall, and honestly, this sounds very realistic to me, even with the numerous cautions. My own background is in the physical sciences, not medicine nor psychology. I mostly view such things through the lens of being a patient, regardless of how much literature I read or experience I gain. I don’t mean any disrespect to the good doctors, but there are so many bad doctors who manage to slip through the system and end up treating patients that my faith in the system is often challenged. Sure, it’s hard to pass the educational, financial and other filters, but, as a patient, I still end up getting treated by people with titles who often don’t seem to know what they’re doing. I can’t help wondering how such people manage to get qualified. Best Wishes, Arthur I spent an evening with a prominent neurosurgeon on Tuesday night discussing all kinds of things relevant to whatever is the topic of the day-one one of the things he said to me was," I have watched surgeries done by all kinds of specialists for 20 years, It frankly scares the shit out of me if I ever need to have my life saved by the hands of someone else. The stuff they leave behind, the inadequecy, the margin of human error is enormous. It is a wonder why more cancer patients don’t die earlier" I have fought battles against my fraternity throughout my career, most often only to alienate myself from others. I am by no means perfect or the best thing to ever have happened-but our system is flawed and its participants equally flawed. We have been trained to believe that medicine is our savior-we need to believe this or the sense of our own mortality is questionable at their hands. That t.v. commercial for Syms in this area where they claim,’ An educated consumer is our best customer" is the mantra we all need to heed. I have known a handful of really fine physicians in all practices of medicine-statistically considering all I have met an known, that is pretty scary. One of my first jobs was as a director of patient services for both inpatient and ambulatory psych pateints at a major hospital. My job was to oversee their diagnosis and treatment by the professional staff-it was a comedy of errors with disgraceful outcomes for too many patients-my battle began there. In retrospect, what goes on today makes then look like good medicine. Very few truly understand what an anxiety disorder feels like, or what the medications doled out feel like. Very few see why and how therapy doesn’t offer more then some fleeting moments of clarity and what to do about it. The lack of devotion, the lack of proper training, the lack of empathy and platitudes of excuses we accept in their defense has made me a very grumpy and impatient person-just like all of the posts I have read from people who want to know why they just feel lousy and fall into the hands of abusive incompetency, I wonder the same. I feel for anyone who needs to find help for themself in the morass of our health care system, or any other health care system worldwide for that matter. It can be very disheartening and frustrating. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (above snipped) Bottom line is it is grueling, time consuming and requires some real grit and tenacity as well as physical stamina. Wonderful summary Margrove. Overall, and honestly, this sounds very realistic to me, even with the numerous cautions. My own background is in the physical sciences, not medicine nor psychology. I mostly view such things through the lens of being a patient, regardless of how much literature I read or experience I gain. I don’t mean any disrespect to the good doctors, but there are so many bad doctors who manage to slip through the system and end up treating patients that my faith in the system is often challenged. Sure, it’s hard to pass the educational, financial and other filters, but, as a patient, I still end up getting treated by people with titles who often don’t seem to know what they’re doing. I can’t help wondering how such people manage to get qualified. Best Wishes, Arthur
I spent an evening with a prominent neurosurgeon on Tuesday night discussing all kinds of things relevant to whatever is the topic of the day-one one of the things he said to me was," I have watched surgeries done by all kinds of specialists for 20 years, It frankly scares the shit out of me if I ever need to have my life saved by the hands of someone else. The stuff they leave behind, the inadequecy, the margin of human error is enormous. It is a wonder why more cancer patients don’t die earlier" I have fought battles against my fraternity throughout my career, most often only to alienate myself from others. I am by no means perfect or the best thing to ever have happened-but our system is flawed and its participants equally flawed. We have been trained to believe that medicine is our savior-we need to believe this or the sense of our own mortality is questionable at their hands. That t.v. commercial for Syms in this area where they claim,’ An educated consumer is our best customer" is the mantra we all need to heed. I have known a handful of really fine physicians in all practices of medicine-statistically considering all I have met an known, that is pretty scary. One of my first jobs was as a director of patient services for both inpatient and ambulatory psych pateints at a major hospital. My job was to oversee their diagnosis and treatment by the professional staff-it was a comedy of errors with disgraceful outcomes for too many patients-my battle began there. In retrospect, what goes on today makes then look like good medicine. Very few truly understand what an anxiety disorder feels like, or what the medications doled out feel like. Very few see why and how therapy doesn’t offer more then some fleeting moments of clarity and what to do about it. The lack of devotion, the lack of proper training, the lack of empathy and platitudes of excuses we accept in their defense has made me a very grumpy and impatient person-just like all of the posts I have read from people who want to know why they just feel lousy and fall into the hands of abusive incompetency, I wonder the same. I feel for anyone who needs to find help for themself in the morass of our health care system, or any other health care system worldwide for that matter. It can be very disheartening and frustrating. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
(above snipped) Bottom line is it is grueling, time consuming and requires some real grit and tenacity as well as physical stamina.
Wonderful summary Margrove. Overall, and honestly, this sounds very realistic to me, even with the numerous cautions. My own background is in the physical sciences, not medicine nor psychology. I mostly view such things through the lens of being a patient, regardless of how much literature I read or experience I gain. I don’t mean any disrespect to the good doctors, but there are so many bad doctors who manage to slip through the system and end up treating patients that my faith in the system is often challenged. Sure, it’s hard to pass the educational, financial and other filters, but, as a patient, I still end up getting treated by people with titles who often don’t seem to know what they’re doing. I can’t help wondering how such people manage to get qualified. Best Wishes, Arthur — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
HI, I was told by a writer on ASAP that Margrove might be able to answer this question. Thank you in advance. HI, Can anyone give me an idea of what type of schooling would be required in the us to persue a career in psychiatry. Also what would be required to persue a degree in pschylogy? Jamie — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
Baccalaureate: 4 years – often called "pre-med" program Med School: 4 years – 2 classroom, 2 internship – must graduate – must pass licensing exam for M.D. Note licensure as MD in any particular state is not done with reciprocity available from other states necessarily, as with nursing licensure. Residency: 3 to 4 years specifically in Psychiatry Psychologist: Master’s degree is required to obtain licensure in a given state to become "licensed clinical psychologist". When applying for a job, you will be (very) possibly competing with people who have their PhD though. Therapist: A willingness to make a sign that says "therapist", and adequate ability to affix it to a visible location on an outer wall, preferably a wall adjacent to the building you plan to work in. Spelling "therapist" and your name correctly are advisable, but also not required. Seriously – I met one of these people, who gave me some VERY good advice and insights, so they should not be discounted. I do think they have limited capacity to help the severely disabled, however that is solely my opinion here. There is no licensure involved. http://www.apa.org/students/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
HI, I was told by a writer on ASAP that Margrove might be able to answer this question. Thank you in advance. HI, Can anyone give me an idea of what type of schooling would be required in the us to persue a career in psychiatry. Also what would be required to persue a degree in pschylogy? Jamie
4 years towards a BS or BA degree with a high grade point average in science or pre med for MD and any liberal arts or science for psychology-you may be able to get a undergrad degree in three years as I did-you then take the GRE (starting in Junior year, sometimes more then once)exam for grad school towards a degree in psychology or your mcat exam for admission into medical school-you need to score pretty high on these grad record exams-then you can do the following: most states have their own licensing for practicing psychotherapy-California for instance has none so you can call yourself a counselor or marriage and family therapist with no affiliation to any board or licensed group-other states have other rules-you can hang a shingle just cause you want to and charge people for any kind of therapy you can legally do which is about what some docs actually do-like primal, licorice eating. biblio therapy, transcendental climaxing therapy, yoga yogurt, or whatever you can get a masters in psychology and practice in some states or get an msw or masters in social work and practice if you had majored in "case study" rather then social service or administration (three course studies in an msw) you can then go further like a lcsw degree or, if you wish, for a doctorate in social work, psychology or education (D. Ed degree) and become licensed in most states to practice however most knowledge in psychotherapy is gained post graduate in further studies affiliated with post grad courses or specialized programs like certification from the Albert Ellis Institute or the Alfred Adler Institute or whatever (these are programs I attended) You can go into a program of clinical psychology and get a Phd or the newer Psy D degrees which are further broken down by the school you attend into clinical, applied, experimental, developmental, neurological, neurobiological etc, studies in psychology-again the education is both academic and applied, but the application format is limited by time for the most part and you learn too little and too generalized a knowledge in actually doing therapy to really do more then hang a shingle once graduated to do much, unless you study more or get mentored (or select to become a vaulted psychoanalyst and attend your own analysis and go to a post grad analytic institute like Adler etc.). You can get a masters in two years, a doctorate in another two if you can complete your doctoral thesis your dissertation of it which is both written and sometimes an oral presentation to defend why you believe the shit you wrote before a group of governing doctorates-it must be a new piece of data that you have researched, tested and present in a well documented manner that meets the criterea of the board of examiners-then you need to get state licensing and in most instances join a board or peer reviewed group like the "American Psychological Association" and your state version of the same-or join a band and screw the whole thing for an MD that specializes in Psychiatry you do not pass go and collect your 200 and go to graduate school as above, but go to medical (graduate) school instead. You have all kinds of programs to try and get into these days and can apply to medical colleges that are allopathic or offer a medical degree or osteopathic that offer a DO degree-it is rumored that the D.O. degree is easier to get into and an easier program to get through-cough.. So is going out of the USA, and one dear collegue of mine was educated in Switzerland in the 50’s with a first rate education-the mexican, or other third world places are pretty dumbed down and I wouldn’t recommend them to any but the real down and out who just want the degree You will recieve 2 years of academic studies that will try and kill you quickly the first year and if you survive without failing or falling in love with your cadavor will get a 2 year clinical practicum where you are the slave and lowest slug on the medical totem pole-here you will attend both classroom and rotations in hospital or clinical settings under the tuteladge of your medical professors and the staff of docs at the hospital. Once you get out and if you are still alive you then get to take your medical exams to make sure you still have a brain left and if you pass you get to graduate doctor school and become an indentured servant to a hospital and do a internship for one or two years depending on the program and a residency, which for psychiatry may be 3 or 4 years. The internship portion is where you will be forced into sleep deprivation, doing everything from changing dressings and bed pans to attending and learning how to crack open a chest and repair a heart-you will rotate in swing shifts in all medical specialties in that hospital until you declare a specialty or course of medical study you wish to practice for the rest of your now shortened life. There are all kinds of residency programs in all kinds of med schools, or educational hospitals that are accredited-I did a combined residency in family practice and psychiatry which was a new and novel program at the dump I attended-this allowed one to do both or either once you complete the course. Once you do get out, if you are still breathing you get to take board licensing tests, state tests for the state in which you intend on working and if you’re an ass like me do a fellowship which is more of the same in your specialty where they try and cram even more junk into your already overloaded and burnt out brain-the good news is you do get paid as an intern and resident I think today you earn about 24 k-30 k a year-sounds good no? If I told you what I earned you would gag. You also get vouchers for free food on a meal plan but only on days you are on call for more then 24 hours which occurs about once a month if you’re in a really nice program, more frequently doin the 24 shift in the better ones–once you get done you can go for board certification which requires a bunch of your peers to try and trick you into answering their inquires wrongly and further testing of your ability to doctor-if you win this new challenge you get to pay for more fraternal rights to stay a member of this party-after it is all over and you are ready to go out and seek a job you need to know you still must take continuing medical courses to maintain your license-thankfully today with the internet you can do this from home and ace the courses since they are easy as shit anyway- then you can continue to do post doctorol fellowships if you choose or go for the gusto and get a job which hopefully you have already been solicited for by numerous places who just want to suck the remainder of you dry for a paltry sum that barely covers your malpractice insurance other alternatives are physicians assistant which some states offer-you play doctor under a docs supervision and can do almost anything he can do he wants you there so he can see more pateints and you cost much less then a full doctorate level doc-these programs are about 2 years post BA/BS and are pretty hard hitting programs psychiatric nurse-you go to nursing school either after your bachelors degree or get one while there with your nursing degree-either a licensed practical nurse LPN or a registered nurse RN-both can assist in therapy and in caring for patients-between the lines, in most big facilities they actually do the doctoring but no one is supposed to know-it is illegal Then there is the nurse practitioner which is similar to the physicians assistant except you are also trained in nursing so when you are needed to do an emergency trach you can actually do it rather then puke on the floor and run from the room screaming for a doc or your momma. Bottom line is it is grueling, time consuming and requires some real grit and tenacity as well as physical stamina. Dental school is faster, they make more money, and are rarely asked questions at parties-Wrote this out real fast so sorry for any typos or goof ups go call a local medical college and ask what they require for a psychiatry specialty and after they stop laughing they will tell you what you need and what it will all cost you—-today–I would bet it is so vast and enormous a bill that you would need to be paying off loans forever Jamie knowing you for some time now and not wishing to sound negative–I think if you could get there you would be so distracted by the overwhelming stimuli you would be stuck in the bookstore reading the bios on the covers until the next semester begins- If you really want to get into the mental health gig I would encourage you to do some volunteer work in a psych hospital or the psych ward of a regular hospital to get the feel for the real down and dirty stuff-if this still looks like fun to you may wish to persue it. I was severely ill when I did all the schooling-but I used it as a distraction from myself in a way. Initially I wasn’t going to go into mental health since I thought it would be hypocritical of me, but I found my way there or rather it found me. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Response:
If you want to learn about this subject you have to learn the way to think correct….speak corrent and write correct… My English sometimes does not allow me to explain…Find by your self okeyyy:)